人物專訪(朱魯青)中英文版

朱魯青

序言

Idea 您好,我是Joyce,今天銜命專訪您,首先謝謝您撥冗受訪。您是目前我個人在台灣所認識最資深的扶輪人,所以今天的訪問,我特別準備了一些較深刻的問題,相信您是回答這些問題最合適的人選,沒有之一!

Hello Idea, I am Joyce. Very pleased to see you, and it’s an honor to have this interview with you. Thanks for your time. Among the Rotarians I know in Taiwan, you are the most senior one. Therefore, I have some deeper questions for you in the belief that you are the best one, not one of the best, to answer them.

為什麼您這麼鍾愛扶輪社,一待將近50年?難道您沒有其他更棒的地方可以去嗎?

Why have you been so in love with the Rotary Club that you have been a Rotarian for almost 50 years? Have you no elsewhere to go?

我13歲時,榮獲青年商會甄選邀請加入「青商會童子軍團」,並且榮獲為該團的聯隊長,開啟了社團活動的機會。18歲起陸續加入青年商會、同際會、傑人會⋯⋯,深深體會到加入社團,服務公益的樂趣。

At the age of 13, I was selected and invited to join the Scout Troop of the Junior Chamber International. Having the honor to be the Senior Patrol Leader, I had the chance to begin my social club experiences. Since the age of 18, I joined the Junior Chamber, Kiwanis, Distinguished Citizens Society one after another. I not only explored the service clubs, but deeply enjoyed the pleasure from the service activities as well.

27歲有幸獲得邀請加入台中扶輪社;38歲擔任大屯扶輪社社長。加入了扶輪社,依據慣例我即刻辭退了其他社團,專心在扶輪社裡學習、友誼、服務⋯⋯近5O年來獲益非常豐富,始終以感恩的心情參加扶輪活動。

At 27, I was invited to join the Rotary Club of Taichung; at 38, I was the President of the Rotary Club of Taichung Tatun. After joining the Rotary Club, I quit other social clubs right away as before, and concentrated on learning, making friends, and serving the community as a Rotarian. Almost 50 years of being a Rotarian, I think it has been quite beneficial to me, and I have been very thankful to all the activities of the Rotary Club.

開啟扶輪、好事發生

能待將近50年,您對於台灣扶輪現況應該相當滿意吧?有什麼覺得需要改變的地方嗎?

Since you have been a Rotary member for almost 50 years, I guess you must have been very satisfied with the status quo of the Rotary Club. Am I right? Or, is there anything you feel the Rotary Club should consider to change in the future?

當年受邀參加台中社,據說每年僅僅邀請兩位,經過嚴格審查、全體社友不記名表決通過,而且必需接受扶輪的四大考驗:「誠實、公平、友誼、互益」,嚴守扶輪許多規章紀律,三次沒有參加例會,就自動退社⋯⋯。雖然如此,我仍然樂在其中。

Back then, when I was invited to join the Rotary Club, only two new members were accepted by ballot after strict review every year. Members must accept the Four-Way Test: Honesty, Fairness, Friendship, and Mutual benefit. Also, the rules of the Rotary Club should be strictly followed by each member. For instance, being absent from three regular meetings, one will lose their membership right away. I have been following all the rules in the past decades, and still enjoy doing it very much.

因為,有許許多多的機會向各界領袖學習為人處世的道理,這是人生最有價值的事情。現在的扶輪社比較開放,年輕才俊多了許多機會加入,我覺得很棒,老、中、青在一起互相尊重、學習共同服務社群。

Thanks to all the opportunities that I have had to learn from so many good people in the Rotary Club, I think being a Rotarian has been one of the best things in my life. Nowadays, the Rotary Club has become even more open to everything, so members from younger generations can learn from us and I can learn from them as well. It’s great that generations of all ages can get along, respect and learn from one another, and serve the community altogether. 

服務置於己上

美式扶輪落地台灣至今屆滿九十週年,不少作法應該早已偏離保羅哈里斯的初創精神,如果他今日能夠發言,以您對扶輪原創精神的理解,您覺得他可能會如何指教台灣扶輪的現況?

It has been 90 years since the Rotary Club entered Taiwan. Many of the things are very different from the days when Paul Harris founded the first club. If he could speak out against the way the Rotary Club is in Taiwan, what do you think he would/might say?

保羅哈里斯在創辦扶輪社時,首先強調「職業服務」,進而「增進友誼」,再來「服務社會」。不過,他也強調扶輪的規則,必須「與時俱進、因地制宜」,我想他見到現在的台灣扶輪發展,也會保持樂觀其成的看法,畢竟扶輪社友都是各行各業的精英,必定會相輔相成,相互信任、共同努力走出一條康莊大道。

When founding the first club, Paul Harris stressed on “Vocational service” first, “Goodwill and friendships” second, and “Serving the community” third. However, he also emphasized that the Rotary Club had to “Keep up with the time” and “Adapt to local conditions.” I think he would be pleased and thankful to see that we are doing just fine, and hope that we will carry on our ways. After all, Rotarians are elites from all parts of the community, and we always learn from each other, work together, and have faith to find the way out.

服務他人、追尋自我

過去一年新冠疫情肆虐全球,扶輪例會、活動受到一定程度影響,後新冠時代,您建議台灣扶輪運作,有什麼新的因應之道(以共渡疫情時期)?或您對於未來發展趨勢有什麼展望?

Since the global pandemic last year, the Rotary regular meetings and service activities have been impacted in significant ways, mostly cancelled. In the post-pandemic world, what do you foresee Taiwan’s Rotary Club can do to respond to and get through the pandemic? Or, what inspiration do you get about the prospect of the future of Taiwan’s Rotary Club? 

我想扶輪活動會更彈性、更多的適應方式,而網站、網路、人工智能等的運作,會成為常態。以虛擬實境的方式,讓扶輪走進更多的時空,結合更多的人們參與,接觸更多的年輕領袖,一起倡議扶輪新的服務焦點。扶輪人的智慧及心靈也會更加開放,是我們擴大扶輪善知、善意、善行的好機會。

In my opinion, the Rotary Club will become more flexible and adapt to the pandemic in more new ways. The use of websites, the Internet, AI technology, etc. will become even more popular. Instead of in-person events, virtual events will be taken into more consideration, not only to overcome the pandemic time but also to break more boundaries between people, geography, and time zones. Therefore, the Rotary Club will perhaps enter a new era. We can unite more people and get to meet more younger leaders. Together, we can initiate new focuses for our Rotary services. Rotarians will become more open-minded, have more wisdom, and acquire higher spirits when spreading the good knowledge, good will, and good deeds of the Rotary Club. A good opportunity is here!

善有善報

扶輪一百年來,經歷兩次世界戰爭,世界霸權從英國轉到美國,扶輪被視為一種美式價值的出口,到全世界開枝散葉,變成普世價值的一部分。進入新的世紀,世界面臨兩強格局,您認為這對世界扶輪的未來發展趨勢,會有什麼樣的影響?或您是否認為這是扶輪的新機會?

Over the first century of the Rotary Club, the world has had two World Wars, and the superpower has shifted from the UK to the US. The Rotary Club, as an export of the US values, has established a strong network all over the world, and has become a part of the universal values. However, in the early 21st century, we are living in a world that has a superpower and a quasi-superpower. What impacts do you expect it will have on the Rotary Club’s future development? Or, do you consider it as a new opportunity for the Rotary Club?

現在是扶輪人向前展望的時刻,扶輪人面對時代快速巨變,必須互相鼓勵激起勇氣、信心、信任面對希望的未來,保持扶輪的成長茁壯。

Now, it’s time for Rotarians to look forward to a brighter future, for we are facing a fast-changing world. We must stick together and inspire each other with courage, confidence, and trust, so as to face the future with hope, and make the Rotary Club grow bigger and stronger.

大膽開闢新的領域,針對氣候、生態、環保、科技、醫療、藝術、教育、社工、和平⋯⋯的關懷並提供幫助。

Be bold to explore new areas such as climate, ecology, environment, technology, medicine, arts, education, social work, world peace, etc. Where there’s a need, there’s a Rotarian!

我們正處在雲層密布、風雨飄搖中,相信危機即將成為轉機,天空也將出現一道美麗的彩虹。扶輪ROTARY的R即是Reciprocity「互惠」,O即是Optimism「樂觀」,T即是Tenacity「堅靭」,A即是Ambition「雄心壯志」,R即是Reliability「可靠性」,Y即是You「您」。

We are facing clouds and storms, and I believe that opportunity comes with crisis. Before long, there will be a rainbow in the sky. Remember that ROTARY stands for Reciprocity, Optimism, Tenacity, Ambition, Reliability, and You.

保羅哈里斯提出的扶輪理念:「職業服務將會和扶輪兄弟融合在一起,服務愈多、獲益愈大」。這個理念的初衷,百年來從未改變,因此扶輪更會自然而然地露出曙光引人讚嘆!

Paul Harris brought up the concept: “Vocational service will bring Rotarians together. He profits most who serves best.” The original intention of his concept has never changed over the past century, and the light of the Rotary Club has been shining brightly and naturally thereafter; WILL STILL be shining hereafter.

以上人物專訪內容將刊載於2021年七月號3461總監月報,敬請期待!

扶輪召喚:就缺你了!
扶輪大愛常在你心?

採訪後記:

Interviewer’s Postscript

經過這次專訪,讓我對於Idea這位即將屆滿50週年的資深社友,有了更進一步的認識!鑑於Idea對扶輪的長期理解,Joyce選擇較為尖銳的提問,而Idea四平八穩的回答,令人更加敬佩這位扶輪前輩的智慧!

Further impressed was I with Idea, a Rotarian for almost 50 years, during this interview. In consideration of his profound understanding of the Rotary club, Joyce had some sharp questions for him, and his responses were so excellently balanced that a senior Rotarian’s wisdom was thoroughly revealed.

訪談結束,Joyce曾短暫向Idea表達個人失落,直言他的回答並沒有直指核心。但是經過他的說明,作為扶輪後輩的我,也能理解,也能諒解,有些話Idea不便直言!

After the interview was finished, Joyce once expressed his disappointment a bit to Idea about how he avoided the core of the questions rather than give direct answers. His response to my disappointment was not satisfied, yet understood and acceptable. Something inconvenient is to say!

不說,不代表問題不存在!Joyce清楚,Idea更清楚!50年,半個世紀,能老眼昏花嗎?當然不能!不只不老眼昏花,對扶輪的未來還充滿期待!這也是Idea所思所想,令Joyce折服之處!

Nothing convenient to say doesn’t mean nothing to say. I know it. Idea knows it better. 50 years, half a century, can one be too old to speak up? Certainly not! Still, Idea is bold to look forward to the Rotary’s future, which is exactly what makes him so admiring to me.

Idea向來與人為善,「身教勝於言教」的處世理念,Joyce認同,也會盡力學習扶輪前輩的氣度與胸襟!但他沒說的,我斗膽就來說說吧!

Idea is always being nice and kind to people and their deeds. I agree with his concept of “Example is better than precept,” and will try my best to learn from him his “open-mindedness and big picture thinking.” However, what he doesn’t say, I’ll try my best to say out loud.

首先,為什麼外界對四大社團的多數看法:就是有錢人在玩的遊戲?外界的這種認知與評價,身為社團成員的人,請問有誰能接受?不能接受的,最終選擇離開(這合理解釋了成員流失的嚴重問題);留下來的,要嘛無感,繼續玩自己的,要嘛無奈,想改變,BUT,有心無力!

First, why is it a common view for the public that it’s a game of the rich to join the four major social clubs? As a Rotarian, can you accept that? He goes away who can’t accept that, which very well explains the big problem of member loss and recruitment for the Rotary Club, or he feels nothing and plays on who stays. Or else he feels helpless and hopeless who wants to change.

也曾聽社友抱怨,平時捐那麼多錢,不見社會說一句好話,一出點問題,負面評論排山倒海,真是不公平!可見社會對於社團捐錢,標榜樂善好施,平時雖沒意見,但也並非完全認同。出錢可能還要遭人冷言,身為社團的一份子,難道不曾想過原因嗎?

Often, we hear a Rotarian’s complaint about the public’s attitudes: they have no problem with Rotarians’ donation, but they do when they hear some bad things about Rotarians. It’s not fair!

Well, I should say it is fair. It delivers a very clear message that the public has no problem with our money doesn’t mean they totally agree with what we do as a Rotarian. People are OK with your money, but they are not OK with you (your behavior)! Did you, as a Rotarian, ever consider why?

身居四大社團之首的扶輪社,雖不能說難辭其咎,但是對於社團形象與社會風氣的引領,確實有檢討空間!無庸置疑!

As the head of the four major clubs, the Rotary Club is not necessarily responsible for the way it is, but should be responsible for the way it will lead it to be. To change the way the public sees us and feels about what we do is definitely the job on our side without doubt!

社團是由人組成,是好是壞,還是得回歸到「人」上面來討論。學習Idea「身教勝於言教」的理念,且不說其他社團,單說扶輪人吧!扶輪社對於扶輪人的規範很簡單,就是每個扶輪人都能脫口而出的四個字「四大考驗」。但若再進一步問,有多少人真正了解「四大考驗」的真諦呢?可能除了這四個字,還是這四個字吧!

Clubs are run by people, so let’s talk about people, good and bad. To learn from Idea’s concept of “Example is better than precept,” we only talk about Rotarians (not members of other clubs). The Rotary Club has simple rules for the Rotarians. It’s the Four-Way Test that we Rotarians are so familiar with. However, what is the true meaning of it? The answer  you will get is probably still “the Four-Way Test” if you ask any Rotarian.

很多社友,恐怕除了第一條比較熟外,其他三條是什麼。。。「啊~不重要啦!來扶輪社就是好吃、好喝、好玩。。。最重要啦!」是的,即便保羅哈里斯有說過要因地制宜,但是這樣的台式扶輪文化,他老人家地下有知,真的會贊同嗎?

Many of the Rotarians may know the first test so well that they forget the other three. “It doesn’t matter, does it? As long as we have fun with good food and good drink…that’s the top of all,” said many Rotarians.

Indeed, provided that Paul Harris really said, “Adapt to local conditions,” do you think he would agree to some of the ways we do the Rotary Club in Taiwan? I can tell you that I don’t if you do.

從職業服務,到親善友誼,再到社會服務,是有階段性的!社友們從互相了解並支持各自的職業生涯,到關心彼此的家庭生活,並透過家庭懇談會凝聚成員與家人,再到感覺志同道合,願意一起為社區(社會)做出貢獻。這原本非常符合中華文化中「獨善其身,進而兼善天下」的理想。

It’s a stage after another from vocational service to fairness and friendship, and to community service. Members have to understand and support each other’s profession, know and care for each other’s family members through informal meetings, and feel so united and like-minded with each as to serve the community together eventually. It fits so well to our Chinese traditional ideas about the ideal that “we can take care of ourselves and then of the world.”

早期或許是這樣,但是現在恐怕已經不太是這樣了!許多社友間彼此認識其實並不深入,更別說去關懷社友的家人了!試問這樣如何同心齊力一起做社會服務?社會服務,在許多社恐怕早就淪為變相的捐款競賽了!「不該是這樣嗎?可是。。。好像大家都是這樣啊!」

It might be like this in the early days. However, I’m afraid it’s not the way it was anymore. We don’t really know each other very well among our members. Not to mention their family members. In such a scenario, how can one really believe that we are able to serve the community together? Community service is probably like a donation contest in many clubs now. “Should it not be like this? But,…it has been like this, for everybody has done it this way…don’t know since when?”

錢捐了,好像自動認為社會服務就已經做了,真的是這樣嗎?結果是,有錢的社友在社內比較受人「尊重」,因為人家錢捐得多,講話就比較大聲,可以左右社的發展方向。久了,「劣幣驅逐良幣」的現象,自然發生!

Now, it’s like when the donation is done, the service is done. Is it REALLY? It has ended up like the more you donate, the more you can say about the way you want YOUR club to be. Over time, bad money has driven out good NATURALLY!

社長最大!一旦上台,不得了,愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞,反正理事會都是自己選的人,沒有理事願意當壞人向社長說:「NO」!這恐怕早已是許多社的常態了吧!扶輪人有許多都是經營事業有成的企業主,試問:有哪一家正規企業可以董事長一個人說了算,董事們都只扮演橡皮圖章的角色?

The president is the boss! Once a member becomes the president, OMG, he can do whatever he loves to do. The Board of Directors is all his people, and no one’s gonna be the bad guy to say NO to the president. I’m afraid this has already been the case in many clubs. It’s just regular! 

Many Rotarians are business owners. Can you do that all by yourself in your company without getting any NOs from your members of the Board of Directors? Can you treat them as rubber stamps?

是的,我認同扶輪發展需要因地制宜,但因地制宜指的是「部分微調」,不是「完全跑調」吧?律師出身的保羅哈里斯,會同意視規章制度為無物?大家就走走過場,彼此彼此,互相互相,反正我當社長時你支持我,你當社長時我也一定支持你啦!

Indeed, I can agree with the concept of “Adapt to local conditions.” However, I think it means minor adaptation instead of major one. Paul Harris is a lawyer, and do you really think he is OK with running things breaking the rules? As the president, I have your unconditional support, and you will have mine when you become one. All for one, one for all?! REALLY?

社友間基於「四大考驗」的前提,相互支持肯定絕對沒有問題,但是應該不是這種相互支持虛應故事吧?

Based on the Four-Way Test, a Rotarian can have all support from any other member, but definitely not when the rules are broken.

90年的扶輪在地發展,如果說一切就像剛剛落地時那樣,絲毫沒有任何問題,未免太違背眾人常識!Idea最後說得好,「百年扶輪不變初衷」,只要一切回到保羅哈里斯的創立初衷,相信扶輪在地發展未來面臨的種種問題,即可迎刃而解!

After 90 years of local development in Taiwan, the Rotary Club is not a new-born like the old days any more. It’s OK that it has some problems because we can fix it together. Very well said by Idea that “Centennial Rotary Club has never changed its original intention.” As long as we hold on to our original intention of being a Rotarian, we will never forget Paul Harris’ original intention, which will lead us to every answer to every question we may have in the future.

但誰決定這個初衷不變呢?當然是每一個「心繫扶輪」的扶輪人!期待,Idea的人物專訪,拋磚引玉,讓更多「心繫扶輪」的扶輪人,更願意為了扶輪的未來一起挺身而出,將扶輪的巨輪推向在地的第一個百年,以及全球的第二個世紀!心繫扶輪,與您共勉!

But, whom can we trust with the original intention? Of course, it’s every Rotarian whose heart is with the Rotary Club.

With this special interview with Idea, I look forward to seeing more Rotarians whose hearts are with the Rotary Club are willing to step out for its future, marching for its first centennial locally, and second one globally! Heart with Rotary! Heart with YOU Rotarians!